The real conflict of interest is for a BOD member to be in favor of our maagement company who's lack of skill or interest has caused a profit center to loose $ and so that BOD member creates a money making business because of it. How can that BOD member serve as long as the management company continues to do business here.
You have a good point. Why is no one concerned that the rental office loses money year after year? It is not an amenity, merely handy for winter owners. It is not Director McBrides fault and he should not have to resign tho. It does need to be addressed and dealt with. Aramark is not our friend.
The concern has finally come to the forefront. It would seem that since Aramark has a vested interst in the success of the rental office someone up the chain of command would have noticed a problem and taken a proactive stance. Since that didn't appear to happen, it then becomes the responsibility of the board to look out after the best interest of the park. Breech of contract and conflict of interest do not appear to meet that criteria. Being a board member is not an easy task, it does take common sense, putting your interests aside and maintaining a high standard of ethics. Once those issues have been breeched it places a shadow over the entire board and the level of trust in their decisions is lowered significantly. If board members hold themselves to this standard this conversation wouldn't even be taking place.
OK. why don't Catherine,Burk.Larry, and don't forget good old Rita,Get mad at Aramark for all the money they have lost because of the. poor Maagement of the rental office and all the money ARAMARK has oast the park because of the rental office If the rental office was done right then the MCBrides wouldn't have a business.
Excuse me, but it is the General Manager's JOB to see that all areas of LIV are run correctly and profitably. The very reason why we have ARAMARK (and paying them BIG bucks) is because "they are only one of few management companies which are capable of handling an organization such as ours." At least that is what I was told many years ago when we first bought our property here. The only reason, that I see, for the Board to have to step in and have to "govern" the rental office at all, is because ARAMARK isn't doing their job. Get another management company! Our Board shouldn't have to manage day-to-day operations.
I agree, the pool has been wonderful. As someone who goes every morning I really appreciate the amount of less wear and tear on my suit as well as myself.
I just want to say no one is perfect. We all must work together for the good of all. Next time for elections we need people to run who have no agenda but a desire to do the best they can for everyone here in our little piece of paradise. Some are here to fish, some to play golf, and some for other activities. I am sorry that so many of you are unhappy. Be a good will ambassador and make someone else happy and it just might rub off on you. Give constructiive ideas and enjoy your life while you can. This is a great place to be!
I hate to break your bubble but just about every board member has an agenda or they don't run. Burke's was power, Sullivan was cart path the golf course,Bergsma was dredging,Peletier to regulate sun shades,Guerra and Montalvo is to provide for the summer folk, Young was to open Reta Priest mail, on and on and on. The only ones you could safely say had no agenda would be the dead brain people like Martin who voted as told. The current board is a good but not perfect. Show me a happy board that agrees with each other and I'll show you board that does not represent the majority of the owners.
Had high hopes that LIV was serious about water conservation and stopping wasteful usage. After seeing all the sprinklers running on non-critical areas on the golf course and common areas, seeing a director washing their car at the boat ramp on a Wednesday morning, seeing sprinklers run every day on some lots, seeing owners washing off their dwellings and parking areas any day of the week, I don't see how the BOD can expect anyone to take the water restriction guidelines seriously. Just more of the usual talk without substance.
RE:Had high hopes that LIV was serious about water conservation
You seriously had high hopes? Delirium my friend because it as most things the board regulates is never enforced. Forget regulation; surcharge the renters or the owners who rent because they are the worst offenders and cost our park in other ways.
That's because renters don't care they don't have to bay to get things fixed or buy new. So a surcharge is the only fair way to keep our cost down . Look what has gone on and its not summer yet.
We shouldn't be too critical of the water conservation effort since it just started. I'm sure mgmt. has a plan that includes a goal of reducing usage by a percentage equal to the percentage of the water budget overrun for 2011. 25% or 50% or whatever. I'm sure the plan also includes reading our meter(s) every month so we can compare usage year-to-year to see if we are making progress and so we will know if we need to modify the conservation plan if the goals aren't being met. The plan probably also includes finding a way to let the residents know how we are doing and whether our behavior needs to be modified in a timely fashion instead of waiting until monthly meetings and then putting out newsletters with 2 month old news. Since the conservation program began June 1 we should wait for the June report card before we judge.
RE: Had high hopes that LIV was serious about water conservation and stopping wasteful usage. Please give the situation an honest chance. Like another post noted, it's only been a short timeframe since it was put into place. It takes time to educate and change peoples understanding of the rules. As to the director washing their car. please bring them to task. If we don't note that we are watching their examples they will continue to think they can get away with anything. This can be done in a respectful manner or with al comment made in a joking manner. (such as, hey that wasn't you I saw washing your car on Wed, was it) If you're not comfortable with that send a note to Jeff K, since it was his proposal, stating your concerns. Please don't let your anger get the best of you. It's time we started to hold people accountable for their actions and that includes the BOD. Most of us are trying to follow the rules and as long you know, and people see that, you are doing the right thing minds and attitudes will change. Be a positive example in any situation.
The only way to have serious water conservation is to mandate that each lot have their own water meter installed. Yes, that means that each lot owner would have to pay for their own water. I bet they would then start conserving! Just think, LIV would then have some serious extra monies to perhaps repair the streets? Or have an emergency fund?
RE:The only way to have serious water conservation… Individual water meters won’t happen but someone should ask if this water coming into our homes is from the same line that waters the lawns, if so what amount of water is being charge sewage? That would be interesting to know. If there’s high percentage sewage charged, that should be addressed along with the consumption. Instead of separate meters maybe separate water lines?
That all our board needs is extra money to waste.Before we blame our residents for water usage we need to have someone check all our sprinklers.That is where we waste huge amounts of water and if you don't believe that just drive around when they are watering and see all the water running down the street
Individual water meters would be a good thing - accountability at the individual level. The "extra" money is something we could use right now as it would have negated the last two increases and more importantly the likely assessments that will be required for dredging and road repair. A first class village requires continued upkeep at a high level not patch work as it breaks.
If what the McBrides say is true: 1) we offered our services to Aramark management to help with the rental office but were turned down and 2) we are here to retire, we didn’t plan to run a rental service and don’t want to do it forever, then it is time for the GRAND gesture which may help to restore their damaged image. Turn over all your rentals to the LIV rental office (they have a BOD member overseeing the new and improved service and now have an owner friendly contract). They can write LIV a check for 50% of their past profits and say, we just wanted to show you how to do it! Who likes this idea?
Joey, can we make this blog more action oriented by creating an online petition which we can sign our names to and forward to the BOD and ask for action on some of the great ideas presented here? We could survey for topics and ask for petitions on the most popular topics. Is there any interest by others for this type of activity?
I see they are installing yet another stop sign on a corner. If they are REALLY interested in safety, why can't we stop the parking of cars which are half-way out in the street, blocking the view around a very dangerous corner where a child was riding their self-propelled scooter down the middle of the street. Could have been a horrible disaster!!!
I believe all this discussion about the rental office and the McBrides is totally missing the point. The rental office probably filled a real need back when we were Outdoors Resorts of America and were a true RV park. Renters needed someone to call when they needed to rent a LOT for their RV for a day, week, month, etc. At some point in time we started to have "permanent" dwellings (park models) and the rental business became more complex because now cleaning of the unit and changing linens and stuff became necessary. This is probably when the rental business became non-profitable. We are way past the point where the village needs to provide a rental service. The vast majority of rentals are not handled by the rental office anymore. Why not just eliminate the rental office totally and let owners find someone else to handle their rentals for them: the McBrides or one of the many fine companies here at the coast that specialize in the rental business. Think of all the money we would save and the ranting and raving at board meetings we would no longer have to suffer through.
Great idea for the McBrides, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Anyone who really believes they are out of the biz is naive, it's simply being handled through "the new kid on the block" in the village paper. Security is suppose to be asking people to move their cars when they stick out. Something they used to do. When we first moved here and were visting friends they came to the door and ask us to move our car out of the street. It would seem they no longer do that. You're right, cars are sticking out all over the place and it is dangerous especially at night..
RE eliminating the rental office: the problem is we have ARAMARK salaries that have to come from some place and since they do such a POOR job of managing our Village, they need to drain any profit we have for their income. It would be so cool to MAKE $ from rentals (like the McBrides) and the food service so we could roll back our condo fees. Why is it that only Aramark makes $ from our Village?
The McBrides are taking $ out of our pockets! And of course see no problems in the Village and defend anything associated with ARAMARK, they know what side their "bread" is buttered on!
You will see them spending OUR $ from our lost rentals on feeding, gifting and image building of the people who rent through them and he votes to raise condo fees and keep Aramark but against a Sat. BOD time so those same people could attend and run for the BOD. I believe this is called two faced.
The car situation is terrible and you can see security flying right by and doing nothing! Where is our management?????? More lawsuits in the making, hey let's raise our condo fees again to pay for them.
So very true and they choose to turn their back on those issues and solve the problems by raising condo fees. Seems like they are only interested in ego gratification and keep stating how great the Village is as it falls into financial ruin. Directors who are making $ off our loss are reprehensible!
True but Ed gets to vote and influence others to support Aramark, if he doesn't have the ethics or good sense to see how wrong this is do we really need him making decisions for us. It ONLY takes 5 of them to decide OUR future!!!!
But change IS possible if individuals have courage and respectfully voice their concerns over and over and over. A bit of community organization and peaceful demonstration is what is needed.
So will they hold the Aramark managers responsible who gave keys and permission to sell alcohol to 2 golf committee members? Can you say LAWSUIT? Oh, just raise our condo fees to cover it, better to play the good old game at the expense of all of us, just look the other way.Disgraceful!
Hmmmmm, why doesn't this happen, or even a Village manager like most towns have? Something is rotten in Denmark. Wouldn't be special interests, would it?
If Guerra was for the summer folk he would have voted to change the BOD meeting to a time they could attend and allow them to run for the BOD. He stated his weekends are for HIM! He is for HIM, not the summmer people.
Appearently the BOD finally got wind of what was happening at the Pro shop, don't know why it took a month or so as at least 2 BOD members have been seen drinking there when it happens and a third was told a month ago. One of the golf committee members who was selling alcohol there, was a BOD member and knew what he was doing but what can you expect from him as he bought a sea cottage lot when he was on the BOD and it was never advertised to the owners.Power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts!
No one should bring an RV in and wash it! I have traveled all over the country and most places do NOT allow it. RVers drive right by a commericial place to wash their RV, why do we allow it!!!!
DREDGING!!!! Why are we not sending the bill to John Freeland who has not completed the circulation canal that the Corp of Engineers said he needed to do! Since everyone lines up to sue us why don't we sue him.
After careful thought I concluded that using this blog to petition any cause would be a mistake. The main reason is that I find it hard to currently address the issues at hand now, so the time in handling a well-structured petition is out of the question. I can do a petition poll though. Leave me a comment with your name and email address and I will provide you with more info. Thanks.
Pro shop update: I hear the lock has been changed (at our expense) and there are new employee hours posted. What happened to Rick’s great cost saving measure of closing it for the summer? What will happen to him and Armando for allowing golf committee members to sell alcohol there? Who is on site that will ask about it at the Coffee and let us all know by way of this blog? Help! Joey, can you get the whole story for us?
Someone told me they looked on the McBrides rental website and they have 50 houses and 27 lots! WOW, do the math, we would NOT have had a condo increase if we had those properties in OUR rental pool. It’s in our BY-laws, all rentals through LIV but we are told we can NOT enforce it. Dredging is in our by-laws and we are getting sued for it so what is the difference. Are our by-laws designed to work for or against us? Looks like against. Something is very wrong in our Village!
As far as the Pro Shop being closed for the summer. Those of us that have purchased annual golf memberships should be able to use the Pro Shop all year that is what we pay for. If not how about a refund? With the shop closed people go out and play all the time without paying at all what about the loss of that income.
The pro shop open hours were increased to appease the golfers upset over losing their private keys to the pro shop. So now we are once again paying an employe just so a few people can sit around after golf in the mornings for a couple of hours drinking beer and wine. Do we make enough profit on these sales to pay for the total cost of having the pro shop open? Maybe our board member who is our treasurer as well as the golf course advisor could answer this one. We can't rely on Aramark to show good judgement. Would be good to know about Thursday evenings also.
You gve Rick too much credit. The idea of limiting pro shop hours reduce costs came from some golfers. You CAN give Rick for back-pedaling under pressure.
WOW the McBrides rent 77 places.If they are renting them all out.The welcome center charges $10 processing fee $5 car fee $3 swim bands.That is more than $1,770.monthly or $21,000 yearly that they bring to LIV .If we can find 50 residents that can be this productive we could reduce our condo fees by $1,000,000.I trust the McBrides to take care of my properties ,I could not work with the rental center,I did rent by putting a card up by the mail boxes ,then I was told my card was removed to make room fore someone else .
Just a thought: close the pro shop totally during the slow summer months. People can bring their own beverages to drink like they did in the days of old before the pro shop even existed. Some people already bring their own beverage to drink after golf. What do we gain? No pro shop employee wages and benefits. No electricity costs to run the AC, beverage cooler, etc. No Housekeeping costs to clean the pro shop. No more beer and wine thrown away because it spoiled because of slow beverage sales. What do we lose? Some profit on beverage sales. Some greens fees from renters (outsiders have to stop at the welcome center to pay for greens fees before they are allowed into the village and all the summer owners have memberships). My guess is the savings would far outweigh the losses.
I well not but my rental with LIV I have done that never made any money but we did lose a lot. There are 50 homes that the home owners don't want to rent theough LIV so do you get it.You go out and spend the money for a rental and see how long you stay with the LIV rental pool.
Gee...I rent my own lot out. Does that mean I am stealing from the village too? There are a bunch of us renting our own places out (including several BOD members) ...are we all thieves?
I was at the pro shop tonite. It was locked up tight...with the same lock that has always been there...so don't believe the lies! The AC was running (you could see the condensation on the windows,) the refrigerators were still chilling the beer & sodas but no one could spend their money in there. Over 20 golfers....most spent a lot of money on memberships...supposed to be good for a year. Wont do that again....a few people came up & wanted to pay to play...but couldn't. We get free arm bands to use the swimming pools for a year but pay hundreds of dollars for a yearly golf membership.....and can't access the pro shop. I know....lets declare the golf course & pro shop amenities like the swimming pools, tennis courts, billiards room, craft room, etc. & stop making the golfers pay to play. Does any one have any idea how much the swimming pools cost us to maintain every month? The swim bands do not go toward maintenance of the pools....they pay for lounge chairs & bronze dolphins. What is wrong with this picture?
I put my house with the LIV rental pool & they never rented it out. I'm not sure how anyone thinks that we are losing money by going with the McBrides if the rental pool never rented our stuff out? I'm not the only one.....I've heard this from a lot of people. I agree with the above...I think they are bringing money into the village.
Take your concerns to Jeff, he is working hard to improve the rental office and woo back owners like you. We need your biz, please come home. If your math is correct, think how much MORE we would have if ALL rentals were through OUR office; 77 places at $100 per mo= $7700 x 12= $92,400 per year that McBrides are making and we are not! What about the other rentals, if every owner who rents comes back we all benefit! TAKE CONTROL, MAKE THE RENTAL OFFICE WHAT YOU NEED, TAlk TO BOD MEMBERS.
annitawhite@sbcglobal.net, dchapa1@rgv.rr.com, gonefishin1950@sbcglobal.net, gunderga@juno.com, pattyann4jc@yahoo.com, jkel08-now@yahoo.com, eddiemontalvo@aol.com, gxguerra@aol.com,liv-ed@hotmail.com You can copy and paste this to an email and share your thoughts with those who have power in LIV. These can also be found on the website. When not in residence you should still be getting your concerns, comments and suggestions to the Coffee with Directors or BOD meeting. Coffees are 3 Wed., BODs 4th. Make your voice heard, this blog shows MANY concerns which need to be addressed.
Director McBride is charged with making decisions which are best for the owners at LIV, not himself. He voted to raise condo fees while taking $ from us and should not have the option to step down but be removed and disgraced!
Right! Why doesn't the BOD put out a letter to all owners who rent expressing a need for their support and asking them to contact them and have a discussion as to what could be done to get their rentals in the LIV pool? We need that $ for many things and to prevent another assessment/condo increase. This is a vital issue to all of us!
You are absolutely right but it should be permanently closed at it's current location and opened at the Grill as it use to be. The pro shop employee could be the Grill employee and it could be opened till 5PM as the pro shop is in season. There is not enough work at the pro shop to warrent an employee and in season it is too small for all golfers and they meet at the Grill anyway. It is a waste of $ as you said. Problem is Aramark has no incentive to make us $, they get their $ even when we have massive losses. WHY DO WE ALLOW THIS TO CONTINUE??? The resident center should be closed also with the duties being divided between the Grill and the Welcome Center. Both the Pro shop and Resident center have minimal work and people who work there are forced to watch TV, read, play on computer and cell phones to keep from loosing their minds to boredom.
Why should owner golfers have to pay for a membership, they already have a charge for that in their condo fees. Tennis players, pool users,exercise room users, quilters, billard players, card players, etc. don't pay extra, why should golfers?
Plenty! Good points! How about we do away with owner golf memberships, move pro shop to Grill and sell alcohol to all as well as food (summer folk want meals!),have WELCOME Center sell greens fees as well and security can do routine checks. Consoladate and figure out what works, it is time for change.We need management that is invested in the community and the OWNERS! This is not all about what renters want esp since we do not capture much of that $ anyway. If OWNERSHIP does not come with any priviledges why own? Owners keep this Village going and yet are treated like an annoyance when they bring up issues.
GOLF COMMITTEE-why don't you follow up on this suggestion and do away with membership dues for OWNERS????? Or, sell OWNER Memberships for the 3 or 4 month fee that can be used all year since the Pro Shop is not available all year. Makes sense not to keep it opened for a small group May-OCT but also makes sense to reduce the fee for full time use.
Then fix the rental pool as we still have to pay Aramark employees. It is SUPPOSE to be a profit center, it needs to be managed and made so. If current management can't do it, change. It is obvious that it IS profitable to rent properties here so it's time to hold someone's feet to the fire. That's how we are loosing $.
There is nothing in the By-Laws about who can do Rentals. But this is interesting....in Dec. of 2009 the BOD passed policy 2.1.1 OWNERS DESIGNATION OF AGENT FORM 1. Any owner who rents his unit through an Agent, other than the Welcome Center, must sign the "Owner Designation of Agent Form" advising LIV who is responsible for the rental. 2. If owner is not signing in person, at the Welcome Center, the form must be notarized.
Now....Guess who wrote the policy, was president of the BOD at the time, & is screaming loudest now? If you guessed PB.....you get a big star on your forehead!
The Pro Shop was moved to it's current location fore meany reasons.It provides the employe a good view of the coarse eliminating the need to hire a Starter or a Marshal.When the Pro Shop is closed we receive no money fore golf or beverages. If the Welcome Center sells a golf pass,they can not know if the person is bringing extra players with them. Security does not have the manpower to patrol the coarse. We already have a Golf Pass system,if we eliminate it that money will come out of the condo fees
Doesn't this say who can rent? ARTICLE VII.From Declarations Can be read on home page of this blog PROVISIONS RELATING TO SALE OR RENTAL OF CONDOMINIUM UNITS No restrictions are placed herein as far as assigning any Condominium Units. The Association, however, shall have until March 20,2072, the exclusive right"in the absence of use by the Owner, to rent lots, which are a part of the Condominium as established by the Declaration, at sche~uled rates promulgated, from time to time, by the Association. The Associ~tion shall retain, for its services, tendered in operating the rental prQgram, fiftY p~rcent (50%) of the gross amount of the rental collected on any lot, with the rem~ining 50% reserved for the benefit of the lot QVfner. A~ a p~rtial cQnsideration for the aforesaid, the Association shall under take an advertising program to promote the rental of said Units, both , if any, owned by the association, and those Units ;. This exclusive right of the A~sociation a part of the condominium as establis~ed by the p~clat;a~ion :shl;i.ll be binding on each member, his successors and assigns, and shall constitute a covenant running with the title, whether leasehold or fee simple, of e~Gh Condominium Unit. so
Just back in residence and this is what I see. Thurs. is a pot luck there and can be 20+- people but many BYOB. Most days very little $ is being missed-should be permanently closed there and moved to resturant.
To just back in residence. I play golf on Thursday evening, we play nine holes of golf and have a potluck after. When the pro shop was open most of us bought drinks there, these last two weeks we have brought our own drinks because the pro shop was closed.
The question still is: are the profits on beverage sales more or less than the total cost of keeping the pro shop open to accomodate the people who want to buy something at the potluck? Until someone in management takes the time to analyze this all discussions about the subject are nothing more than speculation. On the other hand it provides for amusement for those of us (me included) who have nothing more worthwhile to do than read this blog.
With all of these issues going back and forth in this blog. why were none of them brought up for discussion at the coffee. Nothing is going to change by posting these things here. Our board memebers need constructive input and people willing to help come up with viable alternatives to what needs to be done. Ther is a golf commitee but like everything else they don,t do anything in the summer, that is one thing that needs to change, We need yearround commitees that can communicate through modern technology such as phone e-mail text etc
The current pro shop employee does not maintain any type of security for the course as evidenced by recent events this summer. Nor does this person clean the tables, sweep, notify cleaning crew of dirty restrooms, lack of paper products, etc. The mismanagement is stagering!There is just as good, maybe better views of the course from the main restaurant and it is time to consolidate!
So true! Did you bring up any of the concerns? People don't because the BOD tactic is to discredit those who do and laugh at them or mock them openly at meetings. The real problem is the BOD. Think about it folks. Who is the ultimate power here. The Pres of the BOD, the CEO of LIV and the Directors. Yet they continue to do nothing about the massive mismanagement by Aramark. Why, their OWN interests are being met by the status quo. They busy themselves spending our $ but do nothing to reduce the waste. Waste in employees, unnecessary management fees, loss of rental income, profit centers spread all over the property with no supervision or accountbility. Why,there interests are being met. How can they have so little concern having just raised our fees that NO issues re same are on the next BOD agenda. And they don't meet in Aug. Wouldn't it seem prudent to be putting a pencil to every expense since they just raised fees? Why are they not in a cost saving mode rather then buying a new shade cover for the pool patio, golf carts, air con for pro shop, SPEND, SPEND, SPEND! Has it somehow eluded them that the country is in a depression and towns and cities are going bankrupt, seniors can't afford medical services, food, etc.???? But they OK a condo hike and are promising an assessment! Yet they want to discredit individuals who ask them for budgets and what they are doing. This is a very BAD situation and all of you who think life here is wonderful better stop drinking the coolade and wake up and smell the acrid odor of financial disaster for our sweet little village by the sea.
There are many wonderful, concerned owners here who are trying to make this an affordable community which will be able to ride out the current economical storm in the country. But with high condo fees it will be increasingly difficult to attract new owners. And why are golfers the only ammenity users who pay twice by having to buy a membership?????VERY UNFAIR!!!And if you eliminate the golf course this will become a ghost town. It adds value, beauty, wildlife,a much needed green space to all the cement!
A pro shop located at the grill is sill a pro shop. It can be used for your enjoyment as well as all who don't feel they can use it unless they golf. Put the employee there, let that person stay open all day and rent recreation equiptment, serve alcohol, put hot dogs on an automatic grill, stir the natcho sauce and serve chips, popcorn, sell ice cream,soft drinks, coffee. Make it , dare I say, PROFITABE!
Well if the BOD doesn't read this blog they should be asked to resign as it is the ONLY place for owner input. Email your Directors and ask them to do so.
This employe frequently has her child with her while working. Doesn't have time to do anything useful. Is this a professinally run organization or what?
Your're right and the VP's comment was...then everyone's happy! Really!!!! So it is IMPERATIVE that owners write or call the Directors and demand financial accountability as they think we are all happy.
It seems the BOD thinks most owners are fine with the increases, is that true? JOEY- how about one of your online polls to see how people stand on the increase?
I don't know what every one complaining about.L I V is cleener and greener than it has ever been.The folks that I talk to love it here.Improving the swimming area is important.The proe shop can not operate without a aircondishiner.We can not afford to let L I V deteiorat. No one is discredited by this BOD.The problem is,some people will never be happy.
Aramark is running wild and unchecked. We could institute many cuts to the waste here at LIV. The problem is I agree the President of the BOD. Aramark refuses to give info even to our elected financial officer.
What a mess. When Mr and Mrs LIV get tired of being molested by our administration then it will stop....
If you are unhappy here, why stay? Move on and let those of us who are happy be happy. Some people can never be pleased, be thankful you are not in a nursing home somewhere, go find a place where you can enjoy your last years.
It's an evolving process, one that restricts so far only the owners who live here year round. Those who make their money on renters will not impose this on their rentees. I must say there is focus on the common area watering.
"Penny wise and pound foolish" is an old saying, but it certainly defines LIV. Patch work with limited funds(think roads)rather than planned major improvement resulted in worse roads than we had previously. Add to that the apparent priority of dredging over actually improving the roads. And now we're going to improve the water expenditures by taking control of the sprinkler system? What study produced that idea. The majority of the sprinkling system is already on the parks system and the few owners that have their own timers aren't over using the water - think golf course, car/boat washing and an overall system that doesn't require individual accountability.
Maybe the board should review the specifics about golf course water costs vs other and then consider an appropriate plan to reduce the higher of the two. Maybe a better water plan for the course coupled with individual meters would allow us to have more money for other improvements without mediocre fee increases that don't provide enough money except to do patch work!
AMEN!! One can be happier and not forced to leave by higher and higher condo fees! If we had to HURRY and raise condo fees why are we buying a pool shade cover for $5,196 and 2 golf carts at $9000+ when we HAVE 14 and a generator in case the electric goes out!!!!!
Take a look at the #s on the CONDO FEE BREAKDOWN 2011 actual that was a handout at the Annual Mtg. ACTUAL 2011 Expenses-Golf-$65,601.65 Pools-$88,326.62!! From your condo fees per month we all pay $5.34 for the golf and $7.19 for the pools! Do we pay extra for our swimm bands? NO. Why should we pay extra for a golf membership??? We should all be able to play golf just like we swim!
At the last BOD directors said they have REPEATEDLY asked Araramark management for an equiptment inventory and still do not have it nor has management made the alterations to the Resident Center windows. WHY is this allowed to go on??????
It looks like the BOD voted to make the golf course and pro shop an ammenity, thought it was but it's good they restated it. So now it should be clear that, just like the pools, which cost as much, maybe more, and as much as the restaurant, golfers (OWNERS) should not have to pay for golf and really if we all get 4 swim bands we should all be able to have 4 annual passes for golf.
The entire BOD seems to give Patty Ann attitude at every chance they get! The Face MS. White made at Patty Ann while she was on the intercom was as rude as you can get, White's attitude to the Owners is very poor. She should be gone! And this deal about the Golf course now being officially passed as a annenity is BS. That was nothing more than the BOD working it to keep the Pro Shop open all the time, another waste of money in the off season. BOD is terrible !! And not looking out for the LIV, just their own special interest.. How SAD this is for the Owners of LIV, people should wake up to the scams that go on in our community..
Guess the Golf course and Pro shop that the BOD passed yesterday at the meeting is now a annenity, so the Golf members are now not needed, right????? The pools which are another annenity cost more per year than the Golf Course and does that mean they should pay extra for it's use, like the Golf Course. What is the deal?????
I am not sure where the information comes from for pool vs golf course cost. The budget published on line says the golf course costs $187,000 of which a $100,000 in fees offsets leaving about $87,000 in cost to LIV. That is about what the pool and bathhouse cost. If not for the golf fees, then there would be another $100,000 for the Village to come up with.
As stated above, look at the handout from the Annual Meeting labled, Condo Fee Breakdown. 2011 Actual expenses is listed, perhaps it does say that as projected for 2012 on the website but the handout states the ACTUAL Expense for 2011. We were also told we needed to raise the condo fees for a shortfall and then the directors spent it on shade covers and more golf carts, see the earlier post above.We all need to be responsible for asking questions and expecting intelligent, fact based answers. When asked why the shortfall most of the directors did not know why because it is IMPOSSIBLE to get correct info from Aramark. Recent case in point, ask any golfer about the rediculous changeS in hours at the pro shop this summer, a long time owner even posted a joke about it! The MIS-management is huge and the BOD needs to take action NOW! Not skip an Aug BOD meeting and wait till Sept to get started, the place is bleeding NOW!!!!
This is definately a Conflict of Interest for the entire BOD! Why? Because they continued to serve the McBrides well as it relates to increasing their business because we do not follow the By-law and/or decorations regarding renting. In addition, the McBrides have caused a problem with our Security employee's. They have told there Renters that having a ATV is OK! It is not according to the Rentals Rules that our Rental Office hands out to renters. Do the McBrides hand out these rules to their renters???? Security has been put in a hard place to inforce these rules because these renters with ATV's tell them they were told it is OK to have ATV's in the Village? What else do the Mcbrides do to get more business, Ed said, he has more Money than He ever had. Folks it's because of the BOD not managing Aramark. That's fine for Ed's Business. We Owners, are being taken to the Cleaners because of this conflict, which the BOD let's happen?? Comments???
Agree 100%, the entire BOD is in conflict now because of their decisions with McBride and also the Scam with the Golf course NOW being put to a motion in the last BOD meeting to making the Golf/Pro Shop a Amenity. So, we stay open all summer 8-5 with almost no business.. It's really a BOD lack of common sense, bad judgement, to operated LIV this way. Rick changed the hours for very slow business for the summer months. He was doing the right thing, but the BOD decided to make it a Amenity ! Who are they kidding, it has always been a Amenity.. But, BOD members pull a scam for the Good Old Boys of the Golf Committee. For what? To lose more $$$$ for LIV!!
There is no conflict of interest here. Get off the McBride bashing and start looking for a solution to the renting policy. The only real solution is to close the rental office, subtract a few office employees, charge renters/landlords a per person "not an owmer amenity fee" that will cover a good portion of the per year amenity losses we have. This crap about the board is just that, crap. Check your spelling too.
No matter where you liv there's always someone that beleves it is their job to correct everyones mistakes.if you want LIV to be a better place try doing something positive
"When asked why the shortfall most of the directors did not know why because it is IMPOSSIBLE to get correct info from Aramark."
The BOD has total access to the books and records, they direct Aramark and/or sanction all of it's actions so how do you figure they can't get correct info. It's more likely that certain BOD members don't understand the information they receive. No names, most can figure out who leads in the category.
Why the shortfall? No the board does not have access to all the info. There are 2 sets of books and we don't know whats going on. Only what Aramark wants us to know. They are robbing us blind and we are letting them do it. Lets send them packing and get a new company.
Totally understandable, given the unlimited resources that LIV has compared to the other cash strapped organizations that Aramark is contracted with like almost every PX in the country, the majority of national parks not to mention over 600 colleges and universities and on and on..................Geesh people get a grip on reality!
Why is it NOT a conflict of interest, because the BOD has allowed the governing documents to be ignored and in so doing has created an atmosphere of "do what you want". This will become increasingly more dangerous. The BOD needs to figure out how to enforce rules and do so. What can we legally do to ensure safety and compliance?????
This Pro Shop issues is a huge MESS! A number of viable options have been offered but BOD can't seem to get it together to make a decision which is best for the OWNER's bottomline. They think calling it an amenity excuses financial loss! Rental gurus want it opened all the time to point out to RENTERS all that THEY offer-no regard for owner expense! Refusing to require ALL rentals to go through LIV AND carefully managing it CONTINUES to cause problems when all the owners do not profit by the majority of rentals. The BOD goes around mopping up after every rental problem but refuses to serve notice and take back the biz. As long as a few are profiting by the rentals we will ALWAYS have problems!
Ask anyone who actually KNOWS about our accounting system and they will freely tell you that Aroura does indeed keep 2 sets of books. It's not done as a deliberate scam but does make it difficult to know what EXACTLY each budget item is as so many other expenses are added. It DOES mean additional labor costs for her to do it. In an age of quick books surely our little Village can get a handle on our budget in a less costly manner.
I am guessing this comment is an attempt at sarcasim but how can you explain how Aramark seems unable to run any of the profit centers at even a break even point! Geesh person, wake up and smell the coffee, or is it the something rotting?
The grill will never have enough volume to make a profit and should be closed end of story. The golf course is our most important amenity and we are able to reduce it's overhead because owners have accepted the charging of additional fees. To think it was built for making a profit is silly - take it away and see what our property values are. And sarcasm is relative, if anyone truly thinks that Aranark is running two sets of books to scam LIV then that someone needs to get a grip on reality.
Aramark could care less in having LIV's account, small potatoes. So why would they bother to scam? Habit? Research their past and current lawsuits. Overbilling seemed to have been mentioned a number of times so keeping two sets of books protects LIV from Aramark's mistakes. Drop the Grill, Rental Office, and don't replace Armando's position when he retires.
The golf course is absolutely a major draw for many but it continues to be a point of contention the more it looses $. We don't expect it to make $ but we will have fewer complaints if we have a spirit of "how can we keep it from loosing more $" Keeping the Pro shop open during slow times makes non golfers and some golfers angry as they are paying for "a few people to have drinks". Why not make an effort to advertise a "happy hour" at the Pro Shop and expand it to the whole community. If more people are using it the more ownership they will have. The BOD/golf committee could run a get to know your Pro shop happy hour, run a free golf scramble, etc. To the "owners have accepted the charging of additional fees" statement above, when was that vote taken? I don't think so! If it is an amenity, And it is and always has been, then treat it the same as the other amenities.This attitude of bending the rules for individual interests causes so many problems here. Time to step back neighbors and begin anew by inforcing all the bylaws and covenants and consolidating the services (combine the grill, pro shop, resident center employees and spread the duties with the Welcome center employees). It would make sense to do it all where the facilities are(Grill Restaurant) so there is a potential to make more income to off set the expenses. If off season that location is the Pro Shop as no one wants snacks or food, so be it. But TRY something! Don't just complain and do nothing as Change is too frightening.
To the person who told a blogger here to check their spelling: research shows that spelling is a memorization task and memorization tasks are not correlated with IQ scores.If most of the word is spelled correctly it can be recognized. Research also shows that bad manners,hate crimes,bigotry and bullying are highly corrolated to rude and nasty comments such as yours. Misspelled words are often seen on this blog but ONLY YOU were rude enough to comment negatively on them!
Good luck with that! When you figure out how to get a straight answer please post it here as many have been trying. Why wait till November, ask the directors NOW,they are suppose to be working for us and representing our best interest.
Food for thought Con artists can trick you out of your money by taking advantage of any weaknesses they can discover. Define Con artist at Dictionary.com a person adept at lying, cajolery, or glib self-serving talk. 2. a person adept at swindling by means of confidence games; swindler
"To the "owners have accepted the charging of additional fees" statement above, when was that vote taken?"
It's been that way since the resort was opened in the late 70's. The simple matter is that we can not continue to pay for everything out of the association fees unless we increase fees accordingly. The association fees in the 80's were $1200 per year, but that included trash pickup and weeding at each site. The current fees are not even close to what they should be compared to that period. LIV is supposed to be a resort and while we should do everything to keep costs reasonable we should not be trying to make it a "cheap" place to live. If someone wants that they should go to the park on Hwy 100. Sorry if that sounds mean, but most of us didn't invest here for the purpose of supporting others.
You use the word resort like it means more than a gathering place for relaxation and recreation. It can be an inexpensive resort or an expensive resort. If you go by the number of owners who show up for free food I would say, well, expensive is in trouble. This place was and still is a rental investment place that has dipped into the pockets of those who don’t rent their property. Until this is corrected by charging renters or landlords substantially more to offset this rental robbery or eliminate renting period, our area will be just a rental slum dumb area. Sorry Hwy 100, you have company
Even from the top of My Tree, you could see the "right on" character of this posting! Congratulations! We should give the "Posting of the Month" award on this one, if there was one.
I got a call today from a year round owner at LIV. He and his wife swear they will never stay at LIV in the summer again. They are sad about the reallity of what a prior writer called LIV "a rental slum dumb area". Owners can not keep saying love it or leave it we love LIV and want it to change. Too bad some owners don't live in the reallity of what LIV has become a victom of "rental robbery".
"Rental robbery"?? Renters pay processing fees,car pass fees,arm band fees,boat parking fees,golf pass fees and spend their money at your restaurant.When a property is soldit is usually a past renter that buys it.Most owners at LIV were renters before becoming owners.The only victims I see are the closeminded,bigoted,old farts that are forced to live with there anger because they can't feel the joy or see the beauty around them.
It is the same "mean" attitude that is spreading throughout America and causeing the "have nots" to start taking by force from the "haves". An unwillingness to not care for ALL of society has splintered our communities and is what caused the French Revolution. This is not a guchi "resort" but an evolving trailor park and needs to be concerned about it's "afforability" as the number of delinquent homeowner dues grows and lots are sold for peanuts, this drives all our property values down. The solution is NOT raising condo fees or charging owners to golf, it is much bigger then that and needs the concern of all owners. The rental biz seems to create many problems and needs to be centrally controlled by the association.It's simply enforcing our bylaws that the founding fathers wrote, no biz that conflicts with our profit centers and possible stream of income should be allowed.If the owners would insist the BOD do this, we would not be splintered and divided but united in our goals.
Few renters pay golf or boat parking fees. Car, wrist band, and processing It won't cover the water renters use. It won't cover the sewage used. It won't cover extra garbage costs. It won't cover the extra security costs. Get the picture? What this about the them using the grill? It's closed. Calling people names because they expess "their" (you might want to use this word instead of "there" next time) opinions shows your true colors. Finally this rent before you buy crap is just that, crap, unless you are only buying in here to flip your investment.
Add all owners to the victim list, the unregulated renting of properties here is ruining the community. Unless you are personally profiting from rentals, as an owner you are paying a big price for those renting from anyone but LIV. With all the damage that is happening to our amenities by renters and the little they pay to maintain them, this is becoming a community where it is better to rent then to own.When the balance tips in that direction we are in even bigger trouble.
You are correct that we can not pay for everything by condo fees that is why we need to enforce ALL rentals through LIV so we can generate income for all we need. Look at the lifestyle improvements of those who are taking the rentals from the association, new homes, multiple properties-obviously it IS a profitable business and by our bylaws, it is OURS!!! Why don't we have that $??????
You don’t have that $$$$ because LIV failed to earn it. The previous inept managers and favoritism drove renting owners to look elsewhere. Profit is not a dirty word and the only clear solution is to create a higher administration fee on those non owners who use our Park amenities. I believe anyone should never be condemned when they prosper. Too much of that is going around now.
The rental office was profitable at one time but the BOD got lazy and let Aramark take us on a downhill ride which continues unchecked to this day. At BOD meetings they discuss how to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND but where are the cost saving plans???? They should do what you suggest above AND take back the rentals, get someone who can manage it all and make some $.Are you in favor of a few prospering at the expense of the majority?
The ever changing board is at fault because of the rental problems and it is Aramark's unchecked actions that have caused this, right? That’s ridicules but let’s say it’s true, so what does that have to do with solving the current problem? If you want to “take back” the rentals, what litigation will LIV face from an owner wanting to make a point? You can bet that will happen. What do you think it will cost LIV to experiment with a new manager? I agree with the comment to go with dropping the rental office and let those who want to rent fend for themselves, but collect a substantial fee on those renters to cover their expense. The simpler it is the better. Are you in favor of solving the expense to the majority or do you have a problem with someone making money?
Why would you ask that person if they "have a problem with someone making money". It seems clear that they want the "someone making money" to be the OWNERs or homeowner's ass.Sounds like you might be the rental guru who IS making money on the rentals.We have no shortage of litigation, at least this one might help LIV. Please don't threaten us with the fear of a lawsuit, this must be why Directors won't take on the real issues facing LIV, if this attitude continues we are in deep trouble. Are we all to back off to the BULLIES!
And you don't think those who want to rent their property will object to "a substancial fee on their renters"? The bylaws and declarations give the association the right to reclaim the rental biz, lawsuits will come and go but the right thing should be done according to our ruling documents.If not, then everyone can say, you don't enforce the "all rentals.... and no business here" so how can you enforce anything.
I will reply on the last two comments. FIRST on the making money part, you seem to have missed the point, if landlords tried and couldn’t get their property rented through the rental office and now are able to rent their place going through an outside source, where’s the love that now we get the administration, car pass, wrist band fees and oh yea, these renters are supposed to spend money at our closed restaurant and will buy your property when you are ready to sale. You can’t have it both ways. SECOND, don’t rent a thing and am just stating a fact about the lawsuit because they would have a strong argument since this has NEVER been enforced. In addition to that Article VII seems to only refer to lots and not lots with park models, stick houses, and sea cottages. THIRD, who cares if the landlords object to a substantial fee on renters? The board has the power and every right to do this. No Sonny, it’s not personal, it’s business.
You still don’t get it do you, not even the God Father analogy, so let me explain it so even you will understand. LIV started the rental office and those who rented went through them. Many found their places had been used but were never paid and many felt their places were never rented because of favoritism. They gave LIV’s rental office the opportunity and the rental office failed them. They went outside the box and are now getting their places rented. These are now places being rented in addition to what LIV was renting before. Get it. So to me the best solution to satisfy the $30K a year loss is to create this individual renter fee. Example, $30 times a thousand renters equals $30K. Now if you want to bring these outside the box landlords back in and want to go through the agony of trying to satisfy them when they are unhappy in the first place, be my guess. I believe they would be more than happy to go with the renter fee instead of using the rental office. Close the rental office, let go of the rental support people and charge the fee. Simple with no headaches, get it?
Why not enforce the bylaws, take back the rentals, run the biz correctly (we have a BOD member who could tell them how from his own biz)and make some serious $ to offset our condo fees.The management company fees will just be redistributed elsewhere if we close the rentals down creating an even LARGER loss then we now have.Get it? I have made it as simple as possible!
No one wants to pay more than they need to, but I am a winter Texan and agree with this idea of an additional fee for renters to offset the current finacial situation if it will help keep LIV a better place. $40 a month more won't keep me from coming and won't the owner who rents obsorb some of the cost in order to keep a long term renter? Why can't we define what is exorbitant and or have a lower long term winter Texan fee.
BOD members CONTINUE to snicher about this "bring them to task" comment, like that is EVER going to happen. They do not sanction themselves, Directors run this community for their own interests and are privledged VIPs.
Winter texan,you don't mind a$40 increase if the owners or the summer renters pay it. You sound like a politician wanting to pay the bill by reaching into someone else's pockets.
When Outdoor Resorts of America developed this community do you think it was taking into account the need there would be for revenue to pay for the bridge and amenities when it REQUIRED all rentals to go through the company? Do you think it recognized the need for profit centers in order to have a way to cover expenses rather then just raising fees? Do you think it recognized the need to control all rentals so as to have UNIFORM enforcement of the rules and UNIFORM punishment for those who break them? The corporation still exists with about 9 properties they continue to run. If the powers that be believe it is ok to not enforce the governing documents and the owners continue to allow them to do so then they had best decide to TAX the rentals handled through others and have a uniform enforcing of the rental rules with appropriate means to punish those who do not abide by the rules. How does Outdoor Resorts deal with law enforcement, violations of governing documents etc. Perhaps we need someone who is qualified to operate a unique community such as LIV, we are not part of a town, have a costly bridge to maintain, have no government support. Was management displined when the GM, Maintainance Mgr AND his assistant all took the same week of vacation? What about for the issuing of keys to the Pro shop to volunteers and permission to the same people to sell alcohol. This from management and BOD who made a rule NOT to hire Owners/residents- why? Too much accountability! Just like BOD meetings at inconvient time, look at Joey's poll, 53% of responders want it on Sat at 1PM, like the 46 owners who asked the BOD to do the same back in May, which they voted not to do. Fewer eyes on them, more leeway to play favoritism and allow Directors to operate businesses in direct competition to the service the association could be making $ from to offset the LIV expenses. Everything is not fine in LIV, the problems are appearent everyday to the casual observer WHO CARES about the community. Change is possible if people give a darn.But many want to ignore the problems until it is too late. Why? Because those in power choose to impune the integrity of those who speak up and mock them openly at meetings in hopes that they will go away and be quiet. Look at the Witch Hunt they have pulled on those who have spoken out, when we try to silence the voice of the masses we are in trouble...and we are.This is a community for all owners and everyone's opinion should be heard with RESPECT! Many great ideas are presented and just fall by the wayside because the BOD is happy with the status quo and everyone is frightened by lawsuits. People seem unwilling to sit and talk to each other until a comfortable compromise is reached, just throw some $ at it and sue! Or rudely dismiss a person and let the Homeowners foot the bill for the lawsuit. What happened to a free and open discussion and at the end of the day a willingness to agree to see things differently, isn't that why we have a 2 or 3 party system in America. Those talking heads on TV often play golf and socialize together after the heated discussions and hopefully we all reach a middle ground. This system here of waring sides and rudeness to opposing views is stifled and leave little room for INTELLIGENT exchange of idesa.
Joey's Poll results!77% want BOD meetings at a time different then it is currently being held! ONLY 23% want it unchanged, wonder if it is the same 7 BOD who voted no on the request submitted by 46 owners to change it to Sat at 1PM. Hope those interested in a change will bring it for a vote at the ANNUAL meeting! Get those petitions circulating folk and good luck!
just a thought on this. flip the nines. start number 1 at 10 etc. then all can be monitored from the grill. it could be open all year with limited menu in the summer and close the poolside grill so everyone could have a shady air conditioned place to eat
run the golf course out of the grill by flipping the nines. start number one on the current number 10. that way it can be monitored by the grill employee. the grill could stay open for beer and dogs or burgers during the summer and close the poolside grill. then everyone can have a air conditioned place to eat. golfers would sign in at the grill before playing.
I am an owner of an inside lot in LIV and I am wishing to protest the assessment of the dredging fee for the canals! I derive no benefit what so ever from the dredging. I cannot dock a boat in a canal. If I cross a lot to stand on a canal, I am trespassing! So why should I pay a dredging fee for a water front lot owner so he can get his boat down the canal! This protest should be presented to the board and if they won’t act on this we should ask the county judge to issue an injunction to stop the assessment on inside lot owners!
Bravo Outhouse Man! Many many owners feel the same way. No more Greedy Directors... No more getting re-elected, no more appointing of friends, No more special Groups, No Directors doing business in the Park... Not even renting golf carts = Conflict of Interest
What’s worse Mr. Latrine, our Association does not even allow owners the use of the canals. The Declaration of Covenants Article Article II says Canals or channels, up to but not including bulkheads, are included as Limited Common Elements “for USE by the owners of lots abutting the canals or channels.” including space for boat docks built in compliance with standards established by the Association. It does not say for the use of all owners. Yea, Yea, tell me about what the marine laws say about being able to use these canals, but that’s not what the Association says.
168 comments:
The real conflict of interest is for a BOD member to be in favor of our maagement company who's lack of skill or interest has caused a profit center to loose $ and so that BOD member creates a money making business because of it. How can that BOD member serve as long as the management company continues to do business here.
You have a good point. Why is no one concerned that the rental office loses money year after year? It is not an amenity, merely handy for winter owners. It is not Director McBrides fault and he should not have to resign tho. It does need to be addressed and dealt with. Aramark is not our friend.
The concern has finally come to the forefront. It would seem that since Aramark has a vested interst in the success of the rental office someone up the chain of command would have noticed a problem and taken a proactive stance. Since that didn't appear to happen, it then becomes the responsibility of the board to look out after the best interest of the park. Breech of contract and conflict of interest do not appear to meet that criteria. Being a board member is not an easy task, it does take common sense, putting your interests aside and maintaining a high standard of ethics. Once those issues have been breeched it places a shadow over the entire board and the level of trust in their decisions is lowered significantly. If board members hold themselves to this standard this conversation wouldn't even be taking place.
OK. why don't Catherine,Burk.Larry, and don't forget good old Rita,Get mad at Aramark for all the money they have lost because of the. poor Maagement of the rental office and all the money ARAMARK has oast the park because of the rental office If the rental office was done right then the MCBrides wouldn't have a business.
Well after 10 years as an owner the old adage rings true again " the more things change,the more they remain the same"
I was told by our Manager Rick that ALL decisions re: the rental office were and are made by our BOD.
Let me say that I hate Aramark but our BOD is responsible and we must hold each board member responsible for his or her vote on each issue.
Excuse me, but it is the General Manager's JOB to see that all areas of LIV are run correctly and profitably. The very reason why we have ARAMARK (and paying them BIG bucks) is because "they are only one of few management companies which are capable of handling an organization such as ours." At least that is what I was told many years ago when we first bought our property here. The only reason, that I see, for the Board to have to step in and have to "govern" the rental office at all, is because ARAMARK isn't doing their job. Get another management company! Our Board shouldn't have to manage day-to-day operations.
The pool has been so nice and clean.
I agree, the pool has been wonderful. As someone who goes every morning I really appreciate the amount of less wear and tear on my suit as well as myself.
I just want to say no one is perfect. We all must work together for the good of all. Next time for elections we need people to run who have no agenda but a desire to do the best they can for everyone here in our little piece of paradise. Some are here to fish, some to play golf, and some for other activities. I am sorry that so many of you are unhappy. Be a good will ambassador and make someone else happy and it just might rub off on you. Give constructiive ideas and enjoy your life while you can. This is a great place to be!
I hate to break your bubble but just about every board member has an agenda or they don't run. Burke's was power, Sullivan was cart path the golf course,Bergsma was dredging,Peletier to regulate sun shades,Guerra and Montalvo is to provide for the summer folk, Young was to open Reta Priest mail, on and on and on. The only ones you could safely say had no agenda would be the dead brain people like Martin who voted as told. The current board is a good but not perfect. Show me a happy board that agrees with each other and I'll show you board that does not represent the majority of the owners.
For one thing, the majority has never been in control.
Had high hopes that LIV was serious about water conservation and stopping wasteful usage. After seeing all the sprinklers running on non-critical areas on the golf course and common areas, seeing a director washing their car at the boat ramp on a Wednesday morning, seeing sprinklers run every day on some lots, seeing owners washing off their dwellings and parking areas any day of the week, I don't see how the BOD can expect anyone to take the water restriction guidelines seriously. Just more of the usual talk without substance.
RE:Had high hopes that LIV was serious about water conservation
You seriously had high hopes? Delirium my friend because it as most things the board regulates is never enforced. Forget regulation; surcharge the renters or the owners who rent because they are the worst offenders and cost our park in other ways.
That's because renters don't care they don't have to bay to get things fixed or buy new. So a surcharge is the only fair way to keep our cost down . Look what has gone on and its not summer yet.
We shouldn't be too critical of the water conservation effort since it just started. I'm sure mgmt. has a plan that includes a goal of reducing usage by a percentage equal to the percentage of the water budget overrun for 2011. 25% or 50% or whatever. I'm sure the plan also includes reading our meter(s) every month so we can compare usage year-to-year to see if we are making progress and so we will know if we need to modify the conservation plan if the goals aren't being met.
The plan probably also includes finding a way to let the residents know how we are doing and whether our behavior needs to be modified in a timely fashion instead of waiting until monthly meetings and then putting out newsletters with 2 month old news.
Since the conservation program began June 1 we should wait for the June report card before we judge.
RE: Had high hopes that LIV was serious about water conservation and stopping wasteful usage. Please give the situation an honest chance. Like another post noted, it's only been a short timeframe since it was put into place. It takes time to educate and change peoples understanding of the rules. As to the director washing their car. please bring them to task. If we don't note that we are watching their examples they will continue to think they can get away with anything. This can be done in a respectful manner or with al comment made in a joking manner. (such as, hey that wasn't you I saw washing your car on Wed, was it) If you're not comfortable with that send a note to Jeff K, since it was his proposal, stating your concerns. Please don't let your anger get the best of you. It's time we started to hold people accountable for their actions and that includes the BOD. Most of us are trying to follow the rules and as long you know, and people see that, you are doing the right thing minds and attitudes will change. Be a positive example in any situation.
The only way to have serious water conservation is to mandate that each lot have their own water meter installed. Yes, that means that each lot owner would have to pay for their own water. I bet they would then start conserving!
Just think, LIV would then have some serious extra monies to perhaps repair the streets? Or have an emergency fund?
RE:The only way to have serious water conservation…
Individual water meters won’t happen but someone should ask if this water coming into our homes is from the same line that waters the lawns, if so what amount of water is being charge sewage? That would be interesting to know. If there’s high percentage sewage charged, that should be addressed along with the consumption. Instead of separate meters maybe separate water lines?
That all our board needs is extra money to waste.Before we blame our residents for water usage we need to have someone check all our sprinklers.That is where we waste huge amounts of water and if you don't believe that just drive around when they are watering and see all the water running down the street
Individual water meters would be a good thing - accountability at the individual level. The "extra" money is something we could use right now as it would have negated the last two increases and more importantly the likely assessments that will be required for dredging and road repair. A first class village requires continued upkeep at a high level not patch work as it breaks.
Hey whats with drivers completely ignoring the stops signs all the way down the main road? I almost got wiped out yhis morning
If what the McBrides say is true:
1) we offered our services to Aramark management to help with the rental office but were turned down and 2) we are here to retire, we didn’t plan to run a rental service and don’t want to do it forever, then it is time for the GRAND gesture which may help to restore their damaged image. Turn over all your rentals to the LIV rental office (they have a BOD member overseeing the new and improved service and now have an owner friendly contract). They can write LIV a check for 50% of their past profits and say, we just wanted to show you how to do it! Who likes this idea?
Joey, can we make this blog more action oriented by creating an online petition which we can sign our names to and forward to the BOD and ask for action on some of the great ideas presented here? We could survey for topics and ask for petitions on the most popular topics. Is there any interest by others for this type of activity?
I see they are installing yet another stop sign on a corner. If they are REALLY interested in safety, why can't we stop the parking of cars which are half-way out in the street, blocking the view around a very dangerous corner where a child was riding their self-propelled scooter down the middle of the street. Could have been a horrible disaster!!!
I believe all this discussion about the rental office and the McBrides is totally missing the point.
The rental office probably filled a real need back when we were Outdoors Resorts of America and were a true RV park. Renters needed someone to call when they needed to rent a LOT for their RV for a day, week, month, etc.
At some point in time we started to have "permanent" dwellings (park models) and the rental business became more complex because now cleaning of the unit and changing linens and stuff became necessary. This is probably when the rental business became non-profitable.
We are way past the point where the village needs to provide a rental service. The vast majority of rentals are not handled by the rental office anymore.
Why not just eliminate the rental office totally and let owners find someone else to handle their rentals for them: the McBrides or one of the many fine companies here at the coast that specialize in the rental business.
Think of all the money we would save and the ranting and raving at board meetings we would no longer have to suffer through.
Great idea for the McBrides, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Anyone who really believes they are out of the biz is naive, it's simply being handled through "the new kid on the block" in the village paper. Security is suppose to be asking people to move their cars when they stick out. Something they used to do. When we first moved here and were visting friends they came to the door and ask us to move our car out of the street. It would seem they no longer do that. You're right, cars are sticking out all over the place and it is dangerous especially at night..
R.E. Petitions to the BOD from this blog... Great idea, can we do this Joey?
RE eliminating the rental office: the problem is we have ARAMARK salaries that have to come from some place and since they do such a POOR job of managing our Village, they need to drain any profit we have for their income. It would be so cool to MAKE $ from rentals (like the McBrides) and the food service so we could roll back our condo fees. Why is it that only Aramark makes $ from our Village?
The McBrides are taking $ out of our pockets! And of course see no problems in the Village and defend anything associated with ARAMARK, they know what side their "bread" is buttered on!
You will see them spending OUR $ from our lost rentals on feeding, gifting and image building of the people who rent through them and he votes to raise condo fees and keep Aramark but against a Sat. BOD time so those same people could attend and run for the BOD. I believe this is called two faced.
The car situation is terrible and you can see security flying right by and doing nothing! Where is our management?????? More lawsuits in the making, hey let's raise our condo fees again to pay for them.
Soooo many people write the same yet NOTHING changes. Could it be because BOD members are profiting from Aramark's mismanagement?
So very true and they choose to turn their back on those issues and solve the problems by raising condo fees. Seems like they are only interested in ego gratification and keep stating how great the Village is as it falls into financial ruin. Directors who are making $ off our loss are reprehensible!
True but Ed gets to vote and influence others to support Aramark, if he doesn't have the ethics or good sense to see how wrong this is do we really need him making decisions for us. It ONLY takes 5 of them to decide OUR future!!!!
But change IS possible if individuals have courage and respectfully voice their concerns over and over and over. A bit of community organization and peaceful demonstration is what is needed.
So will they hold the Aramark managers responsible who gave keys and permission to sell alcohol to 2 golf committee members? Can you say LAWSUIT? Oh, just raise our condo fees to cover it, better to play the good old game at the expense of all of us, just look the other way.Disgraceful!
EXACTLY!!!Well stated.
Hmmmmm, why doesn't this happen, or even a Village manager like most towns have? Something is rotten in Denmark. Wouldn't be special interests, would it?
So true, they have had 17 years to prove themselves, what's up with the passion to keep Aramark?
If Guerra was for the summer folk he would have voted to change the BOD meeting to a time they could attend and allow them to run for the BOD. He stated his weekends are for HIM! He is for HIM, not the summmer people.
With only 1024 lots and online technology it's time for that to change. We could ALL vote for issues, we don't need 5 people deciding for us!
Appearently the BOD finally got wind of what was happening at the Pro shop, don't know why it took a month or so as at least 2 BOD members have been seen drinking there when it happens and a third was told a month ago. One of the golf committee members who was selling alcohol there, was a BOD member and knew what he was doing but what can you expect from him as he bought a sea cottage lot when he was on the BOD and it was never advertised to the owners.Power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts!
No one should bring an RV in and wash it! I have traveled all over the country and most places do NOT allow it. RVers drive right by a commericial place to wash their RV, why do we allow it!!!!
Good point!
DREDGING!!!! Why are we not sending the bill to John Freeland who has not completed the circulation canal that the Corp of Engineers said he needed to do! Since everyone lines up to sue us why don't we sue him.
After careful thought I concluded that using this blog to petition any cause would be a mistake. The main reason is that I find it hard to currently address the issues at hand now, so the time in handling a well-structured petition is out of the question. I can do a petition poll though. Leave me a comment with your name and email address and I will provide you with more info. Thanks.
Pro shop update: I hear the lock has been changed (at our expense) and there are new employee hours posted. What happened to Rick’s great cost saving measure of closing it for the summer? What will happen to him and Armando for allowing golf committee members to sell alcohol there? Who is on site that will ask about it at the Coffee and let us all know by way of this blog? Help! Joey, can you get the whole story for us?
Someone told me they looked on the McBrides rental website and they have 50 houses and 27 lots! WOW, do the math, we would NOT have had a condo increase if we had those properties in OUR rental pool. It’s in our BY-laws, all rentals through LIV but we are told we can NOT enforce it. Dredging is in our by-laws and we are getting sued for it so what is the difference. Are our by-laws designed to work for or against us? Looks like against. Something is very wrong in our Village!
As far as the Pro Shop being closed for the summer. Those of us that have purchased annual golf memberships should be able to use the Pro Shop all year that is what we pay for. If not how about a refund? With the shop closed people go out and play all the time without paying at all what about the loss of that income.
The pro shop open hours were increased to appease the golfers upset over losing their private keys to the pro shop. So now we are once again paying an employe just so a few people can sit around after golf in the mornings for a couple of hours drinking beer and wine. Do we make enough profit on these sales to pay for the total cost of having the pro shop open? Maybe our board member who is our treasurer as well as the golf course advisor could answer this one. We can't rely on Aramark to show good judgement.
Would be good to know about Thursday evenings also.
You gve Rick too much credit. The idea of limiting pro shop hours reduce costs came from some golfers. You CAN give Rick for back-pedaling under pressure.
WOW the McBrides rent 77 places.If they are renting them all out.The welcome center charges $10 processing fee $5 car fee $3 swim bands.That is more than $1,770.monthly or $21,000 yearly that they bring to LIV .If we can find 50 residents that can be this productive we could reduce our condo fees by $1,000,000.I trust the McBrides to take care of my properties ,I could not work with the rental center,I did rent by putting a card up by the mail boxes ,then I was told my card was removed to make room fore someone else .
Just a thought: close the pro shop totally during the slow summer months. People can bring their own beverages to drink like they did in the days of old before the pro shop even existed. Some people already bring their own beverage to drink after golf.
What do we gain? No pro shop employee wages and benefits. No electricity costs to run the AC, beverage cooler, etc. No Housekeeping costs to clean the pro shop. No more beer and wine thrown away because it spoiled because of slow beverage sales.
What do we lose? Some profit on beverage sales. Some greens fees from renters (outsiders have to stop at the welcome center to pay for greens fees before they are allowed into the village and all the summer owners have memberships).
My guess is the savings would far outweigh the losses.
I well not but my rental with LIV I have done that never made any money but we did lose a lot. There are 50 homes that the home owners don't want to rent theough LIV so do you get it.You go out and spend the money for a rental and see how long you stay with the LIV rental pool.
Gee...I rent my own lot out. Does that mean I am stealing from the village too? There are a bunch of us renting our own places out (including several BOD members) ...are we all thieves?
I was at the pro shop tonite. It was locked up tight...with the same lock that has always been there...so don't believe the lies! The AC was running (you could see the condensation on the windows,) the refrigerators were still chilling the beer & sodas but no one could spend their money in there. Over 20 golfers....most spent a lot of money on memberships...supposed to be good for a year. Wont do that again....a few people came up & wanted to pay to play...but couldn't. We get free arm bands to use the swimming pools for a year but pay hundreds of dollars for a yearly golf membership.....and can't access the pro shop. I know....lets declare the golf course & pro shop amenities like the swimming pools, tennis courts, billiards room, craft room, etc. & stop making the golfers pay to play. Does any one have any idea how much the swimming pools cost us to maintain every month? The swim bands do not go toward maintenance of the pools....they pay for lounge chairs & bronze dolphins. What is wrong with this picture?
I put my house with the LIV rental pool & they never rented it out. I'm not sure how anyone thinks that we are losing money by going with the McBrides if the rental pool never rented our stuff out? I'm not the only one.....I've heard this from a lot of people. I agree with the above...I think they are bringing money into the village.
Take your concerns to Jeff, he is working hard to improve the rental office and woo back owners like you. We need your biz, please come home. If your math is correct, think how much MORE we would have if ALL rentals were through OUR office; 77 places at $100 per mo= $7700 x 12= $92,400 per year that McBrides are making and we are not! What about the other rentals, if every owner who rents comes back we all benefit! TAKE CONTROL, MAKE THE RENTAL OFFICE WHAT YOU NEED, TAlk TO BOD MEMBERS.
YEP
annitawhite@sbcglobal.net, dchapa1@rgv.rr.com, gonefishin1950@sbcglobal.net, gunderga@juno.com, pattyann4jc@yahoo.com, jkel08-now@yahoo.com, eddiemontalvo@aol.com, gxguerra@aol.com,liv-ed@hotmail.com
You can copy and paste this to an email and share your thoughts with those who have power in LIV. These can also be found on the website. When not in residence you should still be getting your concerns, comments and suggestions to the Coffee with Directors or BOD meeting. Coffees are 3 Wed., BODs 4th. Make your voice heard, this blog shows MANY concerns which need to be addressed.
Director McBride is charged with making decisions which are best for the owners at LIV, not himself. He voted to raise condo fees while taking $ from us and should not have the option to step down but be removed and disgraced!
Right! Why doesn't the BOD put out a letter to all owners who rent expressing a need for their support and asking them to contact them and have a discussion as to what could be done to get their rentals in the LIV pool? We need that $ for many things and to prevent another assessment/condo increase. This is a vital issue to all of us!
You are absolutely right but it should be permanently closed at it's current location and opened at the Grill as it use to be. The pro shop employee could be the Grill employee and it could be opened till 5PM as the pro shop is in season. There is not enough work at the pro shop to warrent an employee and in season it is too small for all golfers and they meet at the Grill anyway. It is a waste of $ as you said. Problem is Aramark has no incentive to make us $, they get their $ even when we have massive losses. WHY DO WE ALLOW THIS TO CONTINUE??? The resident center should be closed also with the duties being divided between the Grill and the Welcome Center. Both the Pro shop and Resident center have minimal work and people who work there are forced to watch TV, read, play on computer and cell phones to keep from loosing their minds to boredom.
Why should owner golfers have to pay for a membership, they already have a charge for that in their condo fees. Tennis players, pool users,exercise room users, quilters, billard players, card players, etc. don't pay extra, why should golfers?
What do the by-laws say?
Plenty! Good points! How about we do away with owner golf memberships, move pro shop to Grill and sell alcohol to all as well as food (summer folk want meals!),have WELCOME Center sell greens fees as well and security can do routine checks. Consoladate and figure out what works, it is time for change.We need management that is invested in the community and the OWNERS! This is not all about what renters want esp since we do not capture much of that $ anyway. If OWNERSHIP does not come with any priviledges why own? Owners keep this Village going and yet are treated like an annoyance when they bring up issues.
GOLF COMMITTEE-why don't you follow up on this suggestion and do away with membership dues for OWNERS????? Or, sell OWNER Memberships for the 3 or 4 month fee that can be used all year since the Pro Shop is not available all year. Makes sense not to keep it opened for a small group May-OCT but also makes sense to reduce the fee for full time use.
Then fix the rental pool as we still have to pay Aramark employees. It is SUPPOSE to be a profit center, it needs to be managed and made so. If current management can't do it, change. It is obvious that it IS profitable to rent properties here so it's time to hold someone's feet to the fire. That's how we are loosing $.
There is nothing in the By-Laws about who can do Rentals. But this is interesting....in Dec. of 2009 the BOD passed policy 2.1.1
OWNERS DESIGNATION OF AGENT FORM
1. Any owner who rents his unit through an Agent, other than the Welcome Center, must sign the "Owner Designation of Agent Form" advising LIV who is responsible for the rental.
2. If owner is not signing in person, at the Welcome Center, the form must be notarized.
Now....Guess who wrote the policy, was president of the BOD at the time, & is screaming loudest now? If you guessed PB.....you get a big star on your forehead!
The golf committee has no control over cost of memberships or daily fees. Those fees are set by the BOD.
The Pro Shop was moved to it's current location fore meany reasons.It provides the employe a good view of the coarse eliminating the need to hire a Starter or a Marshal.When the Pro Shop is closed we receive no money fore golf or beverages. If the Welcome Center sells a golf pass,they can not know if the person is bringing extra players with them. Security does not have the manpower to patrol the coarse. We already have a Golf Pass system,if we eliminate it that money will come out of the condo fees
Doesn't this say who can rent?
ARTICLE VII.From Declarations Can be read on home page of this blog
PROVISIONS RELATING TO SALE OR RENTAL
OF CONDOMINIUM UNITS
No restrictions are placed herein as far as assigning any
Condominium Units. The Association, however, shall have until March
20,2072, the exclusive right"in the absence of use by the Owner, to rent
lots, which are a part of the Condominium as established by the
Declaration, at sche~uled rates promulgated, from time to time, by the
Association. The Associ~tion shall retain, for its services, tendered in
operating the rental prQgram, fiftY p~rcent (50%) of the gross amount of
the rental collected on any lot, with the rem~ining 50% reserved for the
benefit of the lot QVfner. A~ a p~rtial cQnsideration for the aforesaid, the
Association shall under take an advertising program to promote the
rental of said Units, both , if any, owned by the association,
and those Units ;. This exclusive right of
the A~sociation a part of the condominium as
establis~ed by the p~clat;a~ion :shl;i.ll be binding on each member, his
successors and assigns, and shall constitute a covenant running with
the title, whether leasehold or fee simple, of e~Gh Condominium Unit.
so
Just back in residence and this is what I see. Thurs. is a pot luck there and can be 20+- people but many BYOB. Most days very little $ is being missed-should be permanently closed there and moved to resturant.
To just back in residence. I play golf on Thursday evening, we play nine holes of golf and have a potluck after. When the pro shop was open most of us bought drinks there, these last two weeks we have brought our own drinks because the pro shop was closed.
The question still is: are the profits on beverage sales more or less than the total cost of keeping the pro shop open to accomodate the people who want to buy something at the potluck? Until someone in management takes the time to analyze this all discussions about the subject are nothing more than speculation.
On the other hand it provides for amusement for those of us (me included) who have nothing more worthwhile to do than read this blog.
I am proud of my neighbors and their conduct at the coffee with directors today. Lets all continue to enjoy life here.
Does anyone down there know how we are doing on reducing water usage and saving money? Don't hear anything about that anymore.
With all of these issues going back and forth in this blog. why were none of them brought up for discussion at the coffee. Nothing is going to change by posting these things here. Our board memebers need constructive input and people willing to help come up with viable alternatives to what needs to be done. Ther is a golf commitee but like everything else they don,t do anything in the summer, that is one thing that needs to change, We need yearround commitees that can communicate through modern technology such as phone e-mail text etc
The current pro shop employee does not maintain any type of security for the course as evidenced by recent events this summer. Nor does this person clean the tables, sweep, notify cleaning crew of dirty restrooms, lack of paper products, etc. The mismanagement is stagering!There is just as good, maybe better views of the course from the main restaurant and it is time to consolidate!
Email or call your BOD directors!
So true! Did you bring up any of the concerns? People don't because the BOD tactic is to discredit those who do and laugh at them or mock them openly at meetings. The real problem is the BOD. Think about it folks. Who is the ultimate power here. The Pres of the BOD, the CEO of LIV and the Directors. Yet they continue to do nothing about the massive mismanagement by Aramark. Why, their OWN interests are being met by the status quo. They busy themselves spending our $ but do nothing to reduce the waste. Waste in employees, unnecessary management fees, loss of rental income, profit centers spread all over the property with no supervision or accountbility. Why,there interests are being met. How can they have so little concern having just raised our fees that NO issues re same are on the next BOD agenda. And they don't meet in Aug. Wouldn't it seem prudent to be putting a pencil to every expense since they just raised fees? Why are they not in a cost saving mode rather then buying a new shade cover for the pool patio, golf carts, air con for pro shop, SPEND, SPEND, SPEND! Has it somehow eluded them that the country is in a depression and towns and cities are going bankrupt, seniors can't afford medical services, food, etc.???? But they OK a condo hike and are promising an assessment! Yet they want to discredit individuals who ask them for budgets and what they are doing. This is a very BAD situation and all of you who think life here is wonderful better stop drinking the coolade and wake up and smell the acrid odor of financial disaster for our sweet little village by the sea.
There are many wonderful, concerned owners here who are trying to make this an affordable community which will be able to ride out the current economical storm in the country. But with high condo fees it will be increasingly difficult to attract new owners. And why are golfers the only ammenity users who pay twice by having to buy a membership?????VERY UNFAIR!!!And if you eliminate the golf course this will become a ghost town. It adds value, beauty, wildlife,a much needed green space to all the cement!
A pro shop located at the grill is sill a pro shop. It can be used for your enjoyment as well as all who don't feel they can use it unless they golf. Put the employee there, let that person stay open all day and rent recreation equiptment, serve alcohol, put hot dogs on an automatic grill, stir the natcho sauce and serve chips, popcorn, sell ice cream,soft drinks, coffee. Make it , dare I say, PROFITABE!
Well if the BOD doesn't read this blog they should be asked to resign as it is the ONLY place for owner input. Email your Directors and ask them to do so.
where do you find the e=mail addresses of the bod?
This employe frequently has her child with her while working. Doesn't have time to do anything useful. Is this a professinally run organization or what?
Left side of blog is the Long Island Village website. click on that, then click on directors and you have it.
I BELIEVE THAT CHILD SHE BABYSITS IS ARMANDO'S SON!
How does an absentee owner get a comment in the comment box??????
Your're right and the VP's comment was...then everyone's happy! Really!!!! So it is IMPERATIVE that owners write or call the Directors and demand financial accountability as they think we are all happy.
It seems the BOD thinks most owners are fine with the increases, is that true? JOEY- how about one of your online polls to see how people stand on the increase?
I don't know what every one complaining about.L I V is cleener and greener than it has ever been.The folks that I talk to love it here.Improving the swimming area is important.The proe shop can not operate without a aircondishiner.We can not afford to let L I V deteiorat. No one is discredited by this BOD.The problem is,some people will never be happy.
Aramark is running wild and unchecked. We could institute many cuts to the waste here at LIV.
The problem is I agree the President of the BOD.
Aramark refuses to give info even to our elected financial officer.
What a mess. When Mr and Mrs LIV get tired of being molested by our administration then it will stop....
If you are unhappy here, why stay? Move on and let those of us who are happy be happy. Some people can never be pleased, be thankful you are not in a nursing home somewhere, go find a place where you can enjoy your last years.
It's an evolving process, one that restricts so far only the owners who live here year round. Those who make their money on renters will not impose this on their rentees. I must say there is focus on the common area watering.
"Penny wise and pound foolish" is an old saying, but it certainly defines LIV. Patch work with limited funds(think roads)rather than planned major improvement resulted in worse roads than we had previously. Add to that the apparent priority of dredging over actually improving the roads. And now we're going to improve the water expenditures by taking control of the sprinkler system? What study produced that idea. The majority of the sprinkling system is already on the parks system and the few owners that have their own timers aren't over using the water - think golf course, car/boat washing and an overall system that doesn't require individual accountability.
Maybe the board should review the specifics about golf course water costs vs other and then consider an appropriate plan to reduce the higher of the two. Maybe
a better water plan for the course coupled with individual meters would allow us to have more money for other improvements without mediocre fee increases that don't provide enough money except to do patch work!
"Be Happy"
What is it about people at LIV whom are easily led to the sand pile to bury their heads it it.
I've heard people say "not Happy leave" and "if you can't afford it move"
How about I'm tired of getting F----d. And give us what were paying for.
I want our finanical officer Patty Ann to be given access to any record she wants.
AMEN!! One can be happier and not forced to leave by higher and higher condo fees! If we had to HURRY and raise condo fees why are we buying a pool shade cover for $5,196 and 2 golf carts at $9000+ when we HAVE 14 and a generator in case the electric goes out!!!!!
Take a look at the #s on the CONDO FEE BREAKDOWN 2011 actual that was a handout at the Annual Mtg. ACTUAL 2011 Expenses-Golf-$65,601.65 Pools-$88,326.62!! From your condo fees per month we all pay $5.34 for the golf and $7.19 for the pools! Do we pay extra for our swimm bands? NO. Why should we pay extra for a golf membership??? We should all be able to play golf just like we swim!
At the last BOD directors said they have REPEATEDLY asked Araramark management for an equiptment inventory and still do not have it nor has management made the alterations to the Resident Center windows. WHY is this allowed to go on??????
It looks like the BOD voted to make the golf course and pro shop an ammenity, thought it was but it's good they restated it. So now it should be clear that, just like the pools, which cost as much, maybe more, and as much as the restaurant, golfers (OWNERS) should not have to pay for golf and really if we all get 4 swim bands we should all be able to have 4 annual passes for golf.
The entire BOD seems to give Patty Ann attitude at every chance they get! The Face MS. White made at Patty Ann while she was on the intercom was as rude as you can get, White's attitude to the Owners is very poor. She should be gone! And this deal about the Golf course now being officially passed as a annenity is BS. That was nothing more than the BOD working it to keep the Pro Shop open all the time, another waste of money in the off season. BOD is terrible !! And not looking out for the LIV, just their own special interest.. How SAD this is for the Owners of LIV, people should wake up to the scams that go on in our community..
Guess the Golf course and Pro shop that the BOD passed yesterday at the meeting is now a annenity, so the Golf members are now not needed, right????? The pools which are another annenity cost more per year than the Golf Course and does that mean they should pay extra for it's use, like the Golf Course. What is the deal?????
I am not sure where the information comes from for pool vs golf course cost. The budget published on line says the golf course costs $187,000 of which a $100,000 in fees offsets leaving about $87,000 in cost to LIV. That is about what the pool and bathhouse cost. If not for the golf fees, then there would be another $100,000 for the Village to come up with.
What about the water bill ascessed to the golf course that contains pool water. Was that figured into the pool costs?
As stated above, look at the handout from the Annual Meeting labled, Condo Fee Breakdown. 2011 Actual expenses is listed, perhaps it does say that as projected for 2012 on the website but the handout states the ACTUAL Expense for 2011. We were also told we needed to raise the condo fees for a shortfall and then the directors spent it on shade covers and more golf carts, see the earlier post above.We all need to be responsible for asking questions and expecting intelligent, fact based answers. When asked why the shortfall most of the directors did not know why because it is IMPOSSIBLE to get correct info from Aramark. Recent case in point, ask any golfer about the rediculous changeS in hours at the pro shop this summer, a long time owner even posted a joke about it! The MIS-management is huge and the BOD needs to take action NOW! Not skip an Aug BOD meeting and wait till Sept to get started, the place is bleeding NOW!!!!
Where is our Golf committee???? Why are they not all over this issue of membership fees?
We're all coming back in NOVEMBER and we will want answers not bolony.
This is definately a Conflict of Interest for the entire BOD! Why? Because they continued to serve the McBrides well as it relates to increasing their business because we do not follow the By-law and/or decorations regarding renting. In addition, the McBrides have caused a problem with our Security employee's. They have told there Renters that having a ATV is OK! It is not according to the Rentals Rules that our Rental Office hands out to renters. Do the McBrides hand out these rules to their renters???? Security has been put in a hard place to inforce these rules because these renters with ATV's tell them they were told it is OK to have ATV's in the Village? What else do the Mcbrides do to get more business, Ed said, he has more Money than He ever had. Folks it's because of the BOD not managing Aramark. That's fine for Ed's Business. We Owners, are being taken to the Cleaners because of this conflict, which the BOD let's happen?? Comments???
Agree 100%, the entire BOD is in conflict now because of their decisions with McBride and also the Scam with the Golf course NOW being put to a motion in the last BOD meeting to making the Golf/Pro Shop a Amenity. So, we stay open all summer 8-5 with almost no business.. It's really a BOD lack of common sense, bad judgement, to operated LIV this way. Rick changed the hours for very slow business for the summer months. He was doing the right thing, but the BOD decided to make it a Amenity ! Who are they kidding, it has always been a Amenity.. But, BOD members pull a scam for the Good Old Boys of the Golf Committee. For what? To lose more $$$$ for LIV!!
And we pay a 15K Fee for this abuse too!
People like you add to our problem with poor judgement and lack of Owner's knowing the Facts!
Hope more Owner think like You!
There is no conflict of interest here. Get off the McBride bashing and start looking for a solution to the renting policy. The only real solution is to close the rental office, subtract a few office employees, charge renters/landlords a per person "not an owmer amenity fee" that will cover a good portion of the per year amenity losses we have. This crap about the board is just that, crap. Check your spelling too.
No matter where you liv there's always someone that beleves it is their job to correct everyones mistakes.if you want LIV to be a better place try doing something positive
"When asked why the shortfall most of the directors did not know why because it is IMPOSSIBLE to get correct info from Aramark."
The BOD has total access to the books and records, they direct Aramark and/or sanction all of it's actions so how do you figure they can't get correct info. It's more likely that certain BOD members don't understand the information they receive. No names, most can figure out who leads in the category.
Why the shortfall? No the board does not have access to all the info. There are 2 sets of books and we don't know whats going on. Only what Aramark wants us to know. They are robbing us blind and we are letting them do it.
Lets send them packing and get a new company.
Two sets of books? If so they're apparently not doing a good job of hiding them or you wouldn't be aware of their existence!
I think we need to get the DA involved... Well maybe when he gets off the rico charges the FBI filed on him earlier this year...
Joey
how often, in the last 10 12 years has this GARBAGE about two sets of books come up ???
Totally understandable, given the unlimited resources that LIV has compared to the other cash strapped organizations that Aramark is contracted with like almost every PX in the country, the majority of national parks not to mention over 600 colleges and universities and on and on..................Geesh people get a grip on reality!
Why is it NOT a conflict of interest, because the BOD has allowed the governing documents to be ignored and in so doing has created an atmosphere of "do what you want". This will become increasingly more dangerous. The BOD needs to figure out how to enforce rules and do so. What can we legally do to ensure safety and compliance?????
This Pro Shop issues is a huge MESS! A number of viable options have been offered but BOD can't seem to get it together to make a decision which is best for the OWNER's bottomline. They think calling it an amenity excuses financial loss! Rental gurus want it opened all the time to point out to RENTERS all that THEY offer-no regard for owner expense! Refusing to require ALL rentals to go through LIV AND carefully managing it CONTINUES to cause problems when all the owners do not profit by the majority of rentals. The BOD goes around mopping up after every rental problem but refuses to serve notice and take back the biz. As long as a few are profiting by the rentals we will ALWAYS have problems!
Ask anyone who actually KNOWS about our accounting system and they will freely tell you that Aroura does indeed keep 2 sets of books. It's not done as a deliberate scam but does make it difficult to know what EXACTLY each budget item is as so many other expenses are added. It DOES mean additional labor costs for her to do it. In an age of quick books surely our little Village can get a handle on our budget in a less costly manner.
I am guessing this comment is an attempt at sarcasim but how can you explain how Aramark seems unable to run any of the profit centers at even a break even point! Geesh person, wake up and smell the coffee, or is it the something rotting?
The grill will never have enough volume to make a profit and should be closed end of story. The golf course is our most important amenity and we are able to reduce it's overhead because owners have accepted the charging of additional fees. To think it was built for making a profit is silly - take it away and see what our property values are. And sarcasm is relative, if anyone truly thinks that Aranark is running two sets of books to scam LIV then that someone needs to get a grip on reality.
Aramark could care less in having LIV's account, small potatoes. So why would they bother to scam? Habit? Research their past and current lawsuits. Overbilling seemed to have been mentioned a number of times so keeping two sets of books protects LIV from Aramark's mistakes. Drop the Grill, Rental Office, and don't replace Armando's position when he retires.
The golf course is absolutely a major draw for many but it continues to be a point of contention the more it looses $. We don't expect it to make $ but we will have fewer complaints if we have a spirit of "how can we keep it from loosing more $" Keeping the Pro shop open during slow times makes non golfers and some golfers angry as they are paying for "a few people to have drinks". Why not make an effort to advertise a "happy hour" at the Pro Shop and expand it to the whole community. If more people are using it the more ownership they will have. The BOD/golf committee could run a get to know your Pro shop happy hour, run a free golf scramble, etc. To the "owners have accepted the charging of additional fees" statement above, when was that vote taken? I don't think so! If it is an amenity, And it is and always has been, then treat it the same as the other amenities.This attitude of bending the rules for individual interests causes so many problems here. Time to step back neighbors and begin anew by inforcing all the bylaws and covenants and consolidating the services (combine the grill, pro shop, resident center employees and spread the duties with the Welcome center employees). It would make sense to do it all where the facilities are(Grill Restaurant) so there is a potential to make more income to off set the expenses. If off season that location is the Pro Shop as no one wants snacks or food, so be it. But TRY something! Don't just complain and do nothing as Change is too frightening.
To the person who told a blogger here to check their spelling: research shows that spelling is a memorization task and memorization tasks are not correlated with IQ scores.If most of the word is spelled correctly it can be recognized. Research also shows that bad manners,hate crimes,bigotry and bullying are highly corrolated to rude and nasty comments such as yours. Misspelled words are often seen on this blog but ONLY YOU were rude enough to comment negatively on them!
Good luck with that! When you figure out how to get a straight answer please post it here as many have been trying. Why wait till November, ask the directors NOW,they are suppose to be working for us and representing our best interest.
Correcting others mistakes IS a positive thing. Right?
Food for thought
Con artists can trick you out of your money by taking advantage of any weaknesses they can discover. Define Con artist at Dictionary.com
a person adept at lying, cajolery, or glib self-serving talk. 2. a person adept at swindling by means of confidence games; swindler
"To the "owners have accepted the charging of additional fees" statement above, when was that vote taken?"
It's been that way since the resort was opened in the late 70's. The simple matter is that we can not continue to pay for everything out of the association fees unless we increase fees accordingly. The association fees in the 80's were $1200 per year, but that included trash pickup and weeding at each site. The current fees are not even close to what they should be compared to that period. LIV is supposed to be a resort and while we should do everything to keep costs reasonable we should not be trying to make it a "cheap" place to live. If someone wants that they should go to the park on Hwy 100. Sorry if that sounds mean, but most of us didn't invest here for the purpose of supporting others.
You use the word resort like it means more than a gathering place for relaxation and recreation. It can be an inexpensive resort or an expensive resort. If you go by the number of owners who show up for free food I would say, well, expensive is in trouble. This place was and still is a rental investment place that has dipped into the pockets of those who don’t rent their property. Until this is corrected by charging renters or landlords substantially more to offset this rental robbery or eliminate renting period, our area will be just a rental slum dumb area. Sorry Hwy 100, you have company
Even from the top of My Tree, you could see the "right on" character of this posting!
Congratulations! We should give the "Posting of the Month" award on this one, if there was one.
I got a call today from a year round owner at LIV. He and his wife swear they will never stay at LIV in the summer again. They are sad about the reallity of what a prior writer called LIV "a rental slum dumb area".
Owners can not keep saying love it or leave it we love LIV and want it to change. Too bad some owners don't live in the reallity of what LIV has become a victom of "rental robbery".
"Rental robbery"?? Renters pay processing fees,car pass fees,arm band fees,boat parking fees,golf pass fees and spend their money at your restaurant.When a property is soldit is usually a past renter that buys it.Most owners at LIV were renters before becoming owners.The only victims I see are the closeminded,bigoted,old farts that are forced to live with there anger because they can't feel the joy or see the beauty around them.
It is the same "mean" attitude that is spreading throughout America and causeing the "have nots" to start taking by force from the "haves". An unwillingness to not care for ALL of society has splintered our communities and is what caused the French Revolution. This is not a guchi "resort" but an evolving trailor park and needs to be concerned about it's "afforability" as the number of delinquent homeowner dues grows and lots are sold for peanuts, this drives all our property values down. The solution is NOT raising condo fees or charging owners to golf, it is much bigger then that and needs the concern of all owners. The rental biz seems to create many problems and needs to be centrally controlled by the association.It's simply enforcing our bylaws that the founding fathers wrote, no biz that conflicts with our profit centers and possible stream of income should be allowed.If the owners would insist the BOD do this, we would not be splintered and divided but united in our goals.
Few renters pay golf or boat parking fees. Car, wrist band, and processing It won't cover the water renters use. It won't cover the sewage used. It won't cover extra garbage costs. It won't cover the extra security costs. Get the picture? What this about the them using the grill? It's closed.
Calling people names because they expess "their" (you might want to use this word instead of "there" next time) opinions shows your true colors. Finally this rent before you buy crap is just that, crap, unless you are only buying in here to flip your investment.
Add all owners to the victim list, the unregulated renting of properties here is ruining the community. Unless you are personally profiting from rentals, as an owner you are paying a big price for those renting from anyone but LIV. With all the damage that is happening to our amenities by renters and the little they pay to maintain them, this is becoming a community where it is better to rent then to own.When the balance tips in that direction we are in even bigger trouble.
You are correct that we can not pay for everything by condo fees that is why we need to enforce ALL rentals through LIV so we can generate income for all we need. Look at the lifestyle improvements of those who are taking the rentals from the association, new homes, multiple properties-obviously it IS a profitable business and by our bylaws, it is OURS!!! Why don't we have that $??????
You don’t have that $$$$ because LIV failed to earn it. The previous inept managers and favoritism drove renting owners to look elsewhere. Profit is not a dirty word and the only clear solution is to create a higher administration fee on those non owners who use our Park amenities. I believe anyone should never be condemned when they prosper. Too much of that is going around now.
The rental office was profitable at one time but the BOD got lazy and let Aramark take us on a downhill ride which continues unchecked to this day. At BOD meetings they discuss how to SPEND, SPEND, SPEND but where are the cost saving plans???? They should do what you suggest above AND take back the rentals, get someone who can manage it all and make some $.Are you in favor of a few prospering at the expense of the majority?
The ever changing board is at fault because of the rental problems and it is Aramark's unchecked actions that have caused this, right? That’s ridicules but let’s say it’s true, so what does that have to do with solving the current problem? If you want to “take back” the rentals, what litigation will LIV face from an owner wanting to make a point? You can bet that will happen. What do you think it will cost LIV to experiment with a new manager? I agree with the comment to go with dropping the rental office and let those who want to rent fend for themselves, but collect a substantial fee on those renters to cover their expense. The simpler it is the better. Are you in favor of solving the expense to the majority or do you have a problem with someone making money?
Why would you ask that person if they "have a problem with someone making money". It seems clear that they want the "someone making money" to be the OWNERs or homeowner's ass.Sounds like you might be the rental guru who IS making money on the rentals.We have no shortage of litigation, at least this one might help LIV. Please don't threaten us with the fear of a lawsuit, this must be why Directors won't take on the real issues facing LIV, if this attitude continues we are in deep trouble. Are we all to back off to the BULLIES!
And you don't think those who want to rent their property will object to "a substancial fee on their renters"? The bylaws and declarations give the association the right to reclaim the rental biz, lawsuits will come and go but the right thing should be done according to our ruling documents.If not, then everyone can say, you don't enforce the "all rentals.... and no business here" so how can you enforce anything.
I will reply on the last two comments. FIRST on the making money part, you seem to have missed the point, if landlords tried and couldn’t get their property rented through the rental office and now are able to rent their place going through an outside source, where’s the love that now we get the administration, car pass, wrist band fees and oh yea, these renters are supposed to spend money at our closed restaurant and will buy your property when you are ready to sale. You can’t have it both ways. SECOND, don’t rent a thing and am just stating a fact about the lawsuit because they would have a strong argument since this has NEVER been enforced. In addition to that Article VII seems to only refer to lots and not lots with park models, stick houses, and sea cottages. THIRD, who cares if the landlords object to a substantial fee on renters? The board has the power and every right to do this. No Sonny, it’s not personal, it’s business.
Exactly Pops or is it Mom, it's business, business that should be LIV's.
You still don’t get it do you, not even the God Father analogy, so let me explain it so even you will understand. LIV started the rental office and those who rented went through them. Many found their places had been used but were never paid and many felt their places were never rented because of favoritism. They gave LIV’s rental office the opportunity and the rental office failed them. They went outside the box and are now getting their places rented. These are now places being rented in addition to what LIV was renting before. Get it.
So to me the best solution to satisfy the $30K a year loss is to create this individual renter fee. Example, $30 times a thousand renters equals $30K.
Now if you want to bring these outside the box landlords back in and want to go through the agony of trying to satisfy them when they are unhappy in the first place, be my guess. I believe they would be more than happy to go with the renter fee instead of using the rental office. Close the rental office, let go of the rental support people and charge the fee. Simple with no headaches, get it?
Why not enforce the bylaws, take back the rentals, run the biz correctly (we have a BOD member who could tell them how from his own biz)and make some serious $ to offset our condo fees.The management company fees will just be redistributed elsewhere if we close the rentals down creating an even LARGER loss then we now have.Get it? I have made it as simple as possible!
"It's Not Personal Sonny, It's Strictly Business"
That's the quote,I did not recognize YOUR incorrect version! Much like your incorrect thinking!
Most Winter Texan renters I know would not pay the exorbitant fees charged by the office and would find somewhere else to go.
No one wants to pay more than they need to, but I am a winter Texan and agree with this idea of an additional fee for renters to offset the current finacial situation if it will help keep LIV a better place. $40 a month more won't keep me from coming and won't the owner who rents obsorb some of the cost in order to keep a long term renter? Why can't we define what is exorbitant and or have a lower long term winter Texan fee.
It's AUG. 14th, what's the report say and where can we find it?
BOD members CONTINUE to snicher about this "bring them to task" comment, like that is EVER going to happen. They do not sanction themselves, Directors run this community for their own interests and are privledged VIPs.
STILL waiting to hear!
Winter texan,you don't mind a$40 increase if the owners or the summer renters pay it. You sound like a politician wanting to pay the bill by reaching into someone else's pockets.
When Outdoor Resorts of America developed this community do you think it was taking into account the need there would be for revenue to pay for the bridge and amenities when it REQUIRED all rentals to go through the company? Do you think it recognized the need for profit centers in order to have a way to cover expenses rather then just raising fees? Do you think it recognized the need to control all rentals so as to have UNIFORM enforcement of the rules and UNIFORM punishment for those who break them? The corporation still exists with about 9 properties they continue to run. If the powers that be believe it is ok to not enforce the governing documents and the owners continue to allow them to do so then they had best decide to TAX the rentals handled through others and have a uniform enforcing of the rental rules with appropriate means to punish those who do not abide by the rules. How does Outdoor Resorts deal with law enforcement, violations of governing documents etc. Perhaps we need someone who is qualified to operate a unique community such as LIV, we are not part of a town, have a costly bridge to maintain, have no government support. Was management displined when the GM, Maintainance Mgr AND his assistant all took the same week of vacation? What about for the issuing of keys to the Pro shop to volunteers and permission to the same people to sell alcohol. This from management and BOD who made a rule NOT to hire Owners/residents- why? Too much accountability! Just like BOD meetings at inconvient time, look at Joey's poll, 53% of responders want it on Sat at 1PM, like the 46 owners who asked the BOD to do the same back in May, which they voted not to do. Fewer eyes on them, more leeway to play favoritism and allow Directors to operate businesses in direct competition to the service the association could be making $ from to offset the LIV expenses. Everything is not fine in LIV, the problems are appearent everyday to the casual observer WHO CARES about the community. Change is possible if people give a darn.But many want to ignore the problems until it is too late. Why? Because those in power choose to impune the integrity of those who speak up and mock them openly at meetings in hopes that they will go away and be quiet. Look at the Witch Hunt they have pulled on those who have spoken out, when we try to silence the voice of the masses we are in trouble...and we are.This is a community for all owners and everyone's opinion should be heard with RESPECT! Many great ideas are presented and just fall by the wayside because the BOD is happy with the status quo and everyone is frightened by lawsuits. People seem unwilling to sit and talk to each other until a comfortable compromise is reached, just throw some $ at it and sue! Or rudely dismiss a person and let the Homeowners foot the bill for the lawsuit. What happened to a free and open discussion and at the end of the day a willingness to agree to see things differently, isn't that why we have a 2 or 3 party system in America. Those talking heads on TV often play golf and socialize together after the heated discussions and hopefully we all reach a middle ground. This system here of waring sides and rudeness to opposing views is stifled and leave little room for INTELLIGENT exchange of idesa.
Joey's Poll results!77% want BOD meetings at a time different then it is currently being held! ONLY 23% want it unchanged, wonder if it is the same 7 BOD who voted no on the request submitted by 46 owners to change it to Sat at 1PM. Hope those interested in a change will bring it for a vote at the ANNUAL meeting! Get those petitions circulating folk and good luck!
Yes, Saturday 1pm 14 (53%)
Yes, Wednesday at 6pm 4 (15%)
Yes, anytime but Wednesday 9am 2 (7%)
No, don't change 6 (23%)
just a thought on this. flip the nines. start number 1 at 10 etc. then all can be monitored from the grill. it could be open all year with limited menu in the summer and close the poolside grill so everyone could have a shady air conditioned place to eat
run the golf course out of the grill by flipping the nines. start number one on the current number 10. that way it can be monitored by the grill employee. the grill could stay open for beer and dogs or burgers during the summer and close the poolside grill. then everyone can have a air conditioned place to eat. golfers would sign in at the grill before playing.
That's an awesome idea--and I'm a golfer!
AWESOME idea! I'm also a golfer! Please send it to the BOD.
sorry dont know how to send this to the bod. hope they read this. Joey can yiu direct them to this post for review?
To all owners of inside lots in LIV
I am an owner of an inside lot in LIV and I am wishing to protest the assessment of the dredging fee for the canals! I derive no benefit what so ever from the dredging. I cannot dock a boat in a canal. If I cross a lot to stand on a canal, I am trespassing! So why should I pay a dredging fee for a water front lot owner so he can get his boat down the canal! This protest should be presented to the board and if they won’t act on this we should ask the county judge to issue an injunction to stop the assessment on inside lot owners!
Bravo Outhouse Man!
Many many owners feel the same way.
No more Greedy Directors...
No more getting re-elected,
no more appointing of friends,
No more special Groups,
No Directors doing business in the Park...
Not even renting golf carts = Conflict of Interest
What’s worse Mr. Latrine, our Association does not even allow owners the use of the canals. The Declaration of Covenants Article Article II says Canals or channels, up to but not including bulkheads, are included as Limited Common Elements “for USE by the owners of lots abutting the canals or channels.” including space for boat docks built in compliance with standards established by the Association. It does not say for the use of all owners. Yea, Yea, tell me about what the marine laws say about being able to use these canals, but that’s not what the Association says.
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